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Deat of a salesman Klausurfragen 13. Klasse Gymnasium
 
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steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 29. Okt 2006 16:06    Titel: Deat of a salesman Klausurfragen 13. Klasse Gymnasium Antworten mit Zitat

Hallo, ich habe einíge für mich unlösbare Fragen zu death of a salesman.
Wer kann schnell helfenfür meine Klausurvorbereitung.
1. Discuss Willy´s skill at revising incidents, list actual incidents and what he turns them into.

2. List and discuss the ways men compete in the play, sports, money , women, possessions, success or their children.

3. Why does Biff say he is mixed up? How much of it is his father´s fault?

4. Contrast the characters of Biff and Happy. Would they make a good team?

5. What different things do Willy and Biff learn about themselves?

6. Discuss the elements of Happy´s nature that come from each of his parents.

7. Why is the character of Ben in the play?

8. What does Willy have to remember? Why now?
9. Discuss the form of the play as a reflection of Willy´s state of mind.
10. Analyze transitions from present to past and back to present.
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 29. Okt 2006 21:03    Titel: Re: Death of a salesman Klausurfragen 13. Klasse Gym. - eilt Antworten mit Zitat

steibi hat Folgendes geschrieben:
Hallo, ich habe einíge für mich unlösbare Fragen zu death of a salesman.
Wer kann schnell helfen :help: :help: für meine Klausurvorbereitung.
1. Discuss Willy´s skill at revising incidents, list actual incidents and what he turns them into.

2. List and discuss the ways men compete in the play, sports, money , women, possessions, success or their children.

3. Why does Biff say he is mixed up? How much of it is his father´s fault?

4. Contrast the characters of Biff and Happy. Would they make a good team?

5. What different things do Willy and Biff learn about themselves?

6. Discuss the elements of Happy´s nature that come from each of his parents.

7. Why is the character of Ben in the play?

8. What does Willy have to remember? Why now?
9. Discuss the form of the play as a reflection of Willy´s state of mind.
10. Analyze transitions from present to past and back to present.
MI
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BeitragVerfasst am: 29. Okt 2006 22:10    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Weißt du, warum du auf die Schnelle keine Antworten gefunden hast? Weil du etwas vergessen hast! Nämlich deine eigenen Ansätze.

Du kannst mir nämlich nicht erzählen, dass du z.B. zu den Punkten 2 und 4 nichts, aber auch gar nichts findest - das sind nämlich nur "ich habe das Buch gelesen und muss noch die richtigen Stellen finden"-Fragen. Dafür musst du noch nicht einmal etwas ANALYSIEREN. Wenn du einige Stellen nennen würdest, dann würde dir bestimmt auch jemand helfen die Liste vielleicht zu erweitern.
Zudem sind viele der Fragen einfach schwammig gestellt, denn du gibst keine Textstellen (z.B. zu 8 - die Frage ist so einfach unverständlich).

Außerdem fügst du das Wort "schnell" ein und "pushst" den Thread dann auch noch (was übrigens nicht erlaubt ist - zumal völlig unnötig, da er ja noch nicht einmal von der Startseite gerutscht ist, was für mich den Anschein erweckt, dass du MORGEN die Klausur schreibst! In DEM Fall, hätten wir dir sowieso kaum helfen können, da deine Fragen wirklich GRUNDLEGENDE FRAGEN ZUM BUCH sind, nichts spezielles - und dazu meist noch nicht einmal schwer! Z.B.: die Frage: "Why is the character of Ben in the play?" Wer das Buch gelesen hat, der weiß doch, dass Ben von Willy in seiner Jugend nicht ernst genommen wurde - für den "großen Geschäftsmann" Willy war Ben doch nichts anderes als ein Streber - jedoch schafft es Ben - im Gegensatz zu Biff und Happy - es zu etwas zu bringen (immerhin "darf" er als Anwalt einen Fall vor dem Supreme Court behandeln - wenn ich mich richtig erinnere). Daraus lässt sich doch ziemlich einfach ein grundlegender Sinn für Bens Existenz im Stück ableiten.
Das alles lässt deine Hilfsanfrage nicht gerade "seriös" erscheinen. Es könnte leicht der Gedanke aufkommen, du suchest nicht "Nachhilfe" sondern "Abhilfe" bei deinen Aufgaben - und das wird Einige davor abschrecken, zu antworten!

Nichtsdestotrotz: Viel Glück bei deiner Klausur (und falls sie nicht morgen ist, dann kannst du ja mal deine Ansätze posten und bekommst sicherlich Erweiterungsvorschläge)
Gruß
MI
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 30. Okt 2006 09:33    Titel: Death of a salesman - Fragen Antworten mit Zitat

Hallo, tut mir leid aber ich bin das erste Mal im Board.
Also zu Ben ist zu sagen, dass es Willys älterer Bruder ist. Er existiert nur in Gedanken Willys. Er hat es ebenfalls zu etwas gebracht. Für Willy ist er ein Berater. Es ist nicht der Sohn Bernard von Charly.

Natürlich habe ich mir Gedanken gemacht, ich will die Antworten mit meinen vergleichen.
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 30. Okt 2006 10:20    Titel: Death of a salesman - questions Antworten mit Zitat

Für Frage 21 Why is Ben in the play?
habe ich folgende Antwort:
Miller uses Ben as a contrast to Willy and Ben plays the role of an adviser.
Ben is Willy´s brother, he was successful and represents the American Dream. He has died and only exists in Willy´s head, that is divided into past and present.
He serves Willy as a guide through his whole unseccessful life, an older brother who appears to Willy every time when he is most desperate. Willy turns to him for advice and at the end Ben supports Willy to commit suicide.

Ist das so korrekt?
Die anderen Antworten gebe ich auch noch ein.

Übrigens, die Klausur schreibe ich erst in 1 Woche.

Gruß Steibi
MI
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BeitragVerfasst am: 30. Okt 2006 14:55    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Wenn du noch Zeit hast, umso besser, dann können wir deine Dinge gemeinsam durchgehen (bei der ein oder anderen Sache weiß ich vielleicht auch nicht mehr gut genug Bescheid, da hilft dann sicherlich auch jemand anderes).

zu Ben (ich muss wohl gestern Abend schon etwas müde gewesen sein - ich verstehe nicht, wie ich darauf komme, dass Charly's Sohn Ben ist grübelnd ).
Ich schreib mal auf Englisch, dann üben wir weiter Augenzwinkern :

Basically, I would agree with you. Ben is Willy's elder brother, who - unlike Willy - has been successful. This is also the most important point: He has been, what Willy wants to be - or else: he represents Willy's dreams (your reference to the American dream in this context is very good, however one should add that, for Willy like often in reality, this "dream" only consists in becoming rich and popular, which is a very incomplete, deluded picture of "success").

It is also correct that Ben does not live anymore and is now an "advisor" for Willy. Only some scenes, where Ben appears, can possibly have happened (i.e.: when Ben "appears" during the card-game with Charly, saying he would leave the US to make money in Africa).
As the "advisor" for Willy, who deeply admires his brother for his success, Ben appears often in those moments, where Willy is most desperate - this is also correct. Willy asks Ben for advice in parental issues, as well as when he thinks about committing suicide, because he himself fears to take a wrong decision (he is a "burdened" perhaps even "broken" man). However, he thinks that Ben can only take the right decisions as he was so successful and thus, he leaves the decisions to him. Thus I also think, we have a very good example of "illusions" in the play, here. Willy just feels stronger after a conversation with his imaginary brother, although Willy is really "creating" Ben's advice.

I guess, until soon:
MI
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 30. Okt 2006 16:59    Titel: Death of a salesman - questions Antworten mit Zitat

Hello, you are right I´m here again.
Vielen Dank für die Hilfe, die ist sehr wichtig, da ich in Englisch nicht so gut bin und ich einfach besser werden will.
Für die Frage 4
Contrast the characters of Biff and Happy. Would they make a good team?
habe ich folgendes ausgearbeitet:
Biff: Willy´s favourite son, doesn´t live in a conformist manner, unsuccessful by lack of orientation (he lost his orientation by finding out that his father has an affair), a man without discipline, he is a go-getter,
he believes in what he says, he feels pity for his father and wants to do something but he can´t, he develops and grows up.

Happy: he is rejected by Willy, lives in a conformist manner like his mother, unsuccessful because he doesn´t take responsibility, he avoids confrontations, his motto of live is striving for pleasure, he is a dreamer like his father, he has an inferiority complex, he is a boaster and sees women as objects, he lies deliberately like Willy, he doesn´t feel pit for his father , he is uninterested in his father, he is an egoist, he doesn´t develop.

Summing up you can say that they would not make a good team because both are losers and they cannot support each other to make it. Happy calls Biff a poet and Biff doesn´t see Happy seriously. Happy keeps on dreaming the wrong dream and Biff develops and grows up
but Biff cannot help him and he couldn´t also help his father. He is too weak.


Ich gebe die Fragen nacheinander ein, für den besseren Überblick für mich.

Vielen Dank im voraus
Gruß Steibi Tanzen
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 30. Okt 2006 18:13    Titel: Death of a salesman - questions Antworten mit Zitat

Rock

Frage 3 sieht bei mir wie folgt aus:
Why does Biff say he is mixed up? How much of it is his father´s fault?

Biff feels "mixed up" because he is confused, uncertain, as though he is wasting his life. This is Willy´s fault because Biff has to fulfill his father´s expectations, namely to be a star athlete in high school, well - liked, but education isn´t so important for Willy. He laughs at the neighbour´s son Bernard who doesn´t like sports and who is a book worm, but good at school. Bernard does Biff´s homework, Willy knows it. Also he doesn´t punish Biff for stealing a football from school, he lets him drive without a license. Biff idolizes his father and when he fails a math exam he believes that Willy can talk to his teacher, he can´t , he is together with the Woman, Biff catches them and he is schocked. After that he has realized that his father has an affair, Biff gives up on himself and on his father. Through that he refuses to grow up.

Ich hoffe, es geht in Ordnung mit meinen Eingaben so nach der Reihe.

Besten Dank im voraus

Gruß steibi grübelnd
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 30. Okt 2006 18:30    Titel: Death of a salesman - questions Antworten mit Zitat

Frage 5 What different things do Willy and Biff learn about themselves?

Willy learns the negative aspects of the American Dream like the benefits which only count or the lack of the values of a more human society.
He notices that the good old days are over when business was based on respect, comradeship and gratitude.
Regarding his favourite son he recognizes that he loves him (he cried!, he cried!) but he feels that he never will be a good father.

Biff learns that he is an ordinary man, just like everyone else. His wish is to confront the truth and knows step by step the importance of the individual. Furthermore he realizes thathe is the object of his father´s desire for success, that Willy projects all his dreams into him. But he develops and grows up in that form that he has to give up his father´s wrong dream.

So, die restlichen Fragen muss ich mir für Morgen vornehmen, ich habe noch ein paar Fächer für heute zu erledigen.

Danke und bis bald
steibi

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MI
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BeitragVerfasst am: 30. Okt 2006 21:50    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Ich denke, dass mit den verschiedenen Posts für die verschiedenen Fragen ist schon in Ordnung. Der "Lesefluss" soll ja auch nach jeder Antwort kurz unterbrochen sein, und das wäre ja auch ein Megapost, wenn alles in einem wäre...

Zu allen Fragen kann ich heute nichts mehr sagen, aber für eine habe ich noch Zeit (morgen oder übermorgen dann mehr):

zu 4:
It is right what you say about Biff being the favourite son of Willy. It is also right that he lost his orientation when realizing that his father was "cheating on his wife" (not very formal expression though Augenzwinkern ). This is also the reason for his undisciplined behaviour. But does he reallly believe in his words? He is a man that is very unsure of himself, since his father, whom he had admired and loved, has disappointed him so much. In fact, Biff is the only one of the three (Happy, Willy and Biff), who is able to look at reality and see it as it is. And the moment he realizes that he is nothing special ("a dime to a dozen"), he tries to explain this to the other two - who don't want to hear this (final argument).
In fact, I see Biff as the counter-part to Willy. His idea of the American Dream is to buy a ranch somewhere in the countryside to work and live on it like he wants. Money and popularity, on the other hand, aren't worth very much in Biff's eyes. He alone has realized it and wants to share this with his brother and his father, whom (I believe) he still loves (read carefully the final argument between the two. I think it becomes clear that Biff, who has loved and admired his father in the past, has still some of his love hidden inside him).

Happy, on the other side, is very much like his father. His inferiority complex is the outcome of Willy's constant attention for Biff, who has a bit forgotten his other son, thus I believe that you are right. I also think that Happy (as I have already expressed) is somebody who doesn't see reality. But he tries to avoid it by building a perfectly fine world around him. He avoids conflicts, he doesn't take responsiblity for anything and he only dreams of happiness (I believe that his name was not given by chance!). He also has different feelings towards his father than Biff has, because Happy has only experienced indifference and not love. In addition to this, I believe that an insane father also doesn't fit in Happy's "perfect world", thus he cannot support his father like this.
So on the whole, I think your description includes the main facts.

I also think that your summary is not bad. It is quite right that the two of them have quite contradicting ideas of reality as well as success (which I think you should mention and describe more explicitly) and it is also right that Biff has not the strenght to really change his father or brother, but nevertheless, he tries to do so, because he loves them.

However, I would like to correct two rather serious English mistakes, I observed in your summary, as far as you permit me to do so Augenzwinkern .
I think you must write "He doesn't TAKE Happy seriously" - I have never heard the expression you used, which doesn't mean that it does not exist, I am only a school boy. However, I am sure that it is incorrect to say "He couldn't also help his father". I would put the "also" at the end of the phrase, changing it into an "either" --> "He couldn't help his father, either".

More tomorrow (or wednesday) Schläfer
MI
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 31. Okt 2006 13:48    Titel: death of a salesman - questions Antworten mit Zitat

Willkommen
Hello again,
danke für die Korrektur. Ich mache jetzt mit Frage 2 weiter, die fällt mir allerdings schwer.

List and discuss the ways men compete in the play, sports, money, women, possessions, success or their children.

Money:
Willy competes with Charley, Ben and Howard. They represent the American Dream, they made it and have enough money to live their live. Willy wants to reach the American Dream also by being well-liked he thinks he has the better plan. For that reason he ´refuses to go to Alaska and Charley ´s offer to work for him. His competition is lost by Willy.


Women:
The only competition I see is that Biff and Happy compete regarding girls. They collect the girls like trophes.

Success:
Willy and his sons compete with their wrong dreams, to be a salesman, to be well-liked, to like sports and you will make it. Charley and Bernard
compete with their realistic motto of life, a good education leads to success, sports you can do later.

Children:



All in all erverybody has its own expectations where is the competition?
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 31. Okt 2006 14:40    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Prost
So langsam glaube ich geht mir der Atem aus. Also zu Frage 6.
Discuss the elements of Happy´s nature that come from each parent.

Happy wants business success and follows in his father´s unhappy footsteps to try to make it. So he doesn´t see reality. From his mother comes to live in a conformist manner as well as to avoid conflict.


Frage 8
What does Willy have to remember? Why now?

Willy wants to make an impression, to be remembered after his death. Furthermore he insists in giving something to Biff after his death. To leave a great funeral, that is what Willy wants to. This is only possible by commiting suicide. Additionally he can get the final profit, the 20,000 Dollar of his insurance police. This money is for Biff.
Why now?
Because his life has been futile, he is too old, poor, scorned by his peers and sons. Last but not least he can fulfill the American Dream in leaving a great funeral, all respects him, a lot of people will come and in the end he died as a great salesman.


Frage 9
Discuss the form of the play as a reflection on Willy´s state of mind.

Hat diese Frage etwas mit den flashbacks zu tun. Ich kann mir da keinen Reim darauf machen mit der "form", welche Form ist damit gemeint.


Jetzt fehlen mir nur noch Frage 1 und 10, beide habe ich noch nicht, da muss ich jetzt auch eine Nacht darüber schlafen. Ich denke, wenn ich alle Fragen beantworten kann (insgesamt sind es 33 aber bei allen anderen konnte ich mir selbst helfen), habe ich so ziemlich alles abgedeckt, so dass ich vieles ableiten kann.

Viele Grüße
Lehrer
von Steibi Schläfer
MI
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BeitragVerfasst am: 31. Okt 2006 18:07    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Ich komm auch kaum mit Augenzwinkern Naja, in den nächsten Tagen wird's so kleckern...

Zu Frage 8:
Zitat:
Money:
Willy competes with Charley, Ben and Howard. They represent the American Dream, they made it and have enough money to live their live. Willy wants to reach the American Dream also by being well-liked he thinks he has the better plan. For that reason he ´refuses to go to Alaska and Charley ´s offer to work for him. His competition is lost by Willy.


Well, I wouldn't say that Charly and Howard represent the "American Dream", they are just successful. However, it is true that Willy "competes" with them (although somehow, I don't like the word...) and the reasons you gave are also correct. Just don't mention the American Dream too often. It is enough to say that he wants to become rich, which is - in his opinion - an essential part of life --> Am. Dr.

Zitat:
Women:
The only competition I see is that Biff and Happy compete regarding girls. They collect the girls like trophes.


Well I guess that is all. I cannot think of anything else (somebody else can, perhaps?)

Zitat:
Success:
Willy and his sons compete with their wrong dreams, to be a salesman, to be well-liked, to like sports and you will make it. Charley and Bernard
compete with their realistic motto of life, a good education leads to success, sports you can do later.


Here I would understand the question differently. As for Willy, success means "popularity and richess", I would therefore say that the competition lies in Willy's behaviour towards Bernard and Charly: He wants to be more popular and richer than them.

Children:

Have a look at what Willy thinks about Bernard and how proud he is that his son is better than Charly's. I guess that is meant by "children". In this context you could also refer to the "seeds", a very interesting symbol in the play.

To summarize, I would say that there should not BE any competition, but Willy CREATES the competition. He always has a look at his neighbour, his friend Charly and in his opinion, Willy must be better than his friend - thus he begins to rival with Charly (and loses in all accounts), although Charly never realizes this. This is just something in Willy's head.

Question 9: Do you know that Arthur Miller wanted to call the play "The Insight of His head" first, because it includes a lot of "inner monologues", the form of writing James Joyce has perfected in his book "Ulysses" and which has probably inspired Arthur Miller? Thus I guess you should have a look at all the thoughts Willy has, which means: yes, this includes the flashbacks, as well as Willy's discussions with Ben and all the other "abnormal" behaviour he shows.

I'll have a look at the others later in the evening perhaps, or tomorrow
MI
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BeitragVerfasst am: 01. Nov 2006 09:16    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

steibi hat Folgendes geschrieben:
Frage 5 What different things do Willy and Biff learn about themselves?

Willy learns the negative aspects of the American Dream like the benefits which only count or the lack of the values of a more human society.
He notices that the good old days are over when business was based on respect, comradeship and gratitude.
Regarding his favourite son he recognizes that he loves him (he cried!, he cried!) but he feels that he never will be a good father.

Although I am not quite sure that Willy has really learned this in the end, as he constantly tries to avoid this knowledge. Moreover, I don't really like your expression in the first sentence. It is correct that he learns that the American Dream has very negative sides (and this is exactly why one has to read this book in grade 12/13), but it is more the American Dream like Willy, as well as most of the Americans, has always seen it, the American Dream, which can be summarized in the famous quotation "From dishwasher to millionaire", but this is not all there is!
However, I would say that especially your second point is absoutely correct.
I have also thought about possible extensions to your point, but I couldn't find any, now.

Zitat:
Biff learns that he is an ordinary man, just like everyone else. His wish is to confront the truth and knows step by step the importance of the individual. Furthermore he realizes that he is the object of his father´s desire for success, that Willy projects all his dreams into him. But he develops and grows up in that form that he has to give up his father´s wrong dream.

I'd say: Correct.
One tiny extension perhaps: Biff also realizes that Willy (like Happy) is phony to himself and thus, he tries to persuade his father to look at reality. He also realizes why his father has become "abnormal", "crazy", or whatever.
--> Biff has burned Willy's American Dream and tries to gain "real" freedom.

Until very soon:
MI
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 01. Nov 2006 15:56    Titel: Death of a salesman questions Antworten mit Zitat

Hallo, ich bin auch wieder am Computer.
Tanzen
Ich habe auch festgestellt, nachdem ich alle Fragen noch einmal durchgelesen habe, dass mir der "American Dream" zu gut gefällt und entsprechend Korrekturen vorgenommen, danke.

Nach einem langen Vormittag, vertieft in death of a salesman, kam ich zu dem Entschluß, dass die Frage 8 von mir falsch beantwortet wurde.

What does Willy have to remember? Why now?
Miller said "if I could make him remember enough he would kill himself"

Consequently Willy has to remember the most important events because by these events he searches to understand what are the reasons for his failure. He remembers the past as a glorious time and disappears into when he gets problems. He wants to transport the good old times into the future, what is impossible, the time changed and he has too high expectations. His psyche is destroyed by these memories and ends commiting suicide. Put simply if he didn´t remember he wouldn´t kill himself, his psyche wouldn´t destroy.

Das, was ich zuvor geschrieben habe, wäre eher passend für die Frage "Warum hat er Selbstmord verübt und was hat er dadurch bezweckt."


Liege ich da richtig?

Thumbs up!
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 01. Nov 2006 16:34    Titel: Death of a salesman questions Antworten mit Zitat

Tanzen
Zu Frage 10 Analyze transitions from present to past and back to present.

Ich habe die Stelle im Restaurant genommen, die gefällt mir. Big Laugh

The scene when Willy meets Biff and Happy at the restaurant plays in the present. Willy and Biff are disappointed, they have bad news, Biff doesn´t get capital by Bill Oliver and Willy is fired. Happy, as usual, picks up girls, his favourite job.
Willy enters the restaurant and his problems overhelmed him, he is fired, so he again slips from the present into the past. He goes into the washroom remembering the Woman, especially the scene in Boston 15 years before when Biff discovered him in his hotel room with the Woman. That was the moment when Biff decided his father wasn´t a hero he was a "phnoy little fake". He lost the trust in his father whom he admired. He recognizes that he dreams the wrong dream. During this scene Willy speaks loudly and is unable to cope with the past and the present at the same time.
Biff is distraught at his father and notices that Willy is confused. Biff feels pity for Willy who lives in a dream world, knowing he needs help. Accompanied by Happy and the girls Biff rushes from the restaurant. Willy keeps in the past until the waiter finds and helps him in the present he leaves the restaurant.
The next scene begins in the present when Biff and Happy get home. Willy
is in the back Yard planting seeds and searching for an advice. So he has to slip into the past and asks Ben who appears what he thinks about commiting suicide for the final profit.
Biff takes Willy back to present when he comes outside to explain Willy that he will leave and they argue. Biff shouts, in that moment Willy realizes that Biff loves him because he "cried" to Willy. After that he takes his car and makes the final profit.


So viel für heute, heute Abend werde ich mir Frage 1 und 9 genauer unter die Lupe nehmen.

Thanks and until tomorrow Lehrer
Schläfer
Steibi
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BeitragVerfasst am: 01. Nov 2006 21:44    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Ich ordne mal kurz, was ich schon durchgelesen habe:
Frage 2, 4, 5, 7
Es fehlen von mir: 1, 3, 6, 8, 9, 10

zu 3: Wo steht das noch mal genau mit dem "mixed up"? So genau kenn ich das Buch nicht mehr, würde das mir aber gerne nochmal ansehen, bevor ich antworte

zu 8: Gibt's dazu auch eine Textstelle?

zu 6: I think you got the most important elements. I can't think of any others at the moment. I'll search once more tomorrow.

zu 10: I think the author of the question mainly wanted to know how the transition is done ONSTAGE (have a look at the stage directions, etc.) Of course, I cannot really know what your teacher or whoever it was wanted to know, but my teacher only wanted to hear how the transition was performed onstage, like how the stage changed, etc.

Gruß
MI
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 02. Nov 2006 11:13    Titel: death of a salesman questions 1,3,6,8,9,10 Antworten mit Zitat

Ja richtig 1,3,6,8,9,10 stehen noch aus.

zu 3: "mixed up" gibt es bei mir die Textstelle in Akt 1 Seite 14 ab Zeile 20 - 26.
Gespräch Happy und Biff ab "you´re a poet".

zu 8: Hier habe ich nur die Aussage von Arthur Miller "If I could make him remember enough he would kill himself". Danach wird die Frage gestellt:
"What does Willy have to remember? Why does Willy have to remember it now?.

Die Fragen habe ich aus der Lektürenhilfe -Barron´s Book Notes - Klett, Lerntraining.

zu Frage 10: Dann habe ich falsch geantwortet. Wie soll ich diese transitions in Worte fassen? Hilfe
grübelnd

Die Frage 9 habe ich ausgearbeitet, die mache ich separat.

Bei Frage 1 bin ich mir unsicher ob bei incidents die fingierten Unfälle gemeint sind oder incidents from the past to the present? Hilfe
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 02. Nov 2006 11:29    Titel: Salesman Antworten mit Zitat

Also hier zu Frage 9:

Discuss the form of the play as a reflection on Willy´s state of mind.

Miller uses the inner monolog to reflect Willy´s state of mind, though he shows how Willy feels, manages and thinks. Miller lets Willy slip into the past and back to the present and from present to the past. The journeys into the past are Willy´s thoughts, his repressed experiences which surge back into memory.
These experiences affect how he views events in the present. Willy disappears into the past when he is overhelmed by his problems. Therefore the original title for the play was The Inside of his Head. A word, a thougt or a symbol during conversation bring back an incident from the past. For example, when Linda starts to flatter Willy, that reminds him of the flattery of the Woman, who is lonely just as Willy. Willy can be happy with her.

Or the stockings, mended by Linda, remind Willy to the Woman because she got silk stockings as a present from Willy. Willy is angry and he doesn´t like that Linda mends stockings. At this moment he suffers
from a bad conscience.

Ben, Willy´s brother who has died, also plays a big role to show Willy´s state of mind, but he doesn´t only exist in Willy´s head. He is a guide and appears when Willy is most desperate. Willy turns to him for advice. Ben is an imaginary figure, the second half of his head and Willy is really "creating" Ben´s advice . After speaking with Ben Willy feels stronger.

Hammer

I hope I´m right

steibi
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 02. Nov 2006 16:28    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Ich meine bei Frage 9 könnte man noch auf die metaphor and repetitions eingehen oder ?
grübelnd
gruß steibi
MI
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BeitragVerfasst am: 02. Nov 2006 19:10    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Frage 8
steibi hat Folgendes geschrieben:

What does Willy have to remember? Why now?
Miller said "if I could make him remember enough he would kill himself"

Consequently Willy has to remember the most important events because by these events he searches to understand what ate the reasons for his failure. He remembers the past as a glorious time and disappears into IT when he gets problems. He wants to transport the good old times into the future, what is impossible, the time changed and he has too high expectations. His psyche is destroyed by these memories and HE ends commiting suicide. Put simply: if he doesn´t remember he wouldn´t kill himself, his psyche wouldn´t destroy.


I think you got the point there (although I have never thought about this). However, I would advise you to explain it a bit more. There seems to be a relation between the number of elements Willy remembers and his desire to live - as you have drawn from the question. Perhaps this is, because the past times are glorious (which is what you wrote), but I would also say that, with the glorious times, his faults that affect the present are also revealed to him (although he doesn't really want to see him).

zu Frage 9:

I guess that is partially right, too. You mention several examples how the author expresses Willy's state of mind, how the state of mind effects his life, etc., but I think you should talk more about the actual "form" of the play. All you say is how it is done, but you don't say what you think of it, which advantages this form has, or else, which disadvantages, perhaps even how you like it.
However, I am not sure here, as the question as such is very obscure, it does not give many information about what is acutally to do (normally, when beginning with the Commandword "Discuss..." the author of the question adds a lot of hints where to "go").

And, sorry if I don't understand, but what exactly did you mean by your last posting? Just the general things?

More later! smile
MI
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BeitragVerfasst am: 02. Nov 2006 21:46    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

zu Frage 1:
I think you have to have a look at anything, which was not foreseen by Willy (anything!) and then have a look at what Willy turns the experience into (you know that he does not like to look at reality, so he changes the incidences in his mind)

zu Frage 10:
Well, I remember having analysed the transistion from Present into Past. Like for example the leaves that appear (this is mentioned in the stage directions), the leaves are therefore a symbole for an upcoming flashback. I also believe that the flashbacks are played on other parts of the stage (the apron? I don't remember).
And then you may add a bit of what you have already written (about how the flashbacks seem for the characters of the play).

Mit Frage 3 beschäftige ich mich mal morgen.

Gruß
MI
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 02. Nov 2006 22:18    Titel: Question 9 Antworten mit Zitat

I mean whether it is necessary to mention metaphors for example:
"you can eat the orange and throw the peel away", what means you can´t give up elderly employees who are no longer successful.
Or repetitions like "Kid".

grübelnd
Gruß steibi
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 02. Nov 2006 22:43    Titel: salesman Antworten mit Zitat

Teufel
Ich sehe das auch so, dass manche Fragen wirklich nicht eindeutig sind.
Morgen werde ich mich gegen Mittag wieder melden. Dieses Drama nimmt bei mir auf dem Schreibtisch schon "dramatische" Stapel an Ausarbeitungen an.

Until tomorrow Lehrer
Schläfer
Steibi
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 03. Nov 2006 16:54    Titel: salesman question1 Antworten mit Zitat

Willkommen

Wir haben 2 Fragen aus der Lektürenhilfe zur Ausarbeitung aufbekommen, leider nicht die, die wir gerade durcharbeiten. Aber diese Fragen habe ich schon, die sind meiner Meinung nach o.k.
Es scheint allgemein üblich zu sein, dass solche nicht ganz einfach zu verstehende Fragen den Schülern vorgesetzt werden.

Also zu 1.

Discuss Willy´s skill at revising incidents. List actual incidents and what he turns them into.

Actual incidents from the past that Willy recalls in the present are:

1. After taking back from the past into the present by Happy, Willy is excited and Happy also Charly come and they want to calm him.
Charly offers Willy a job but Willy refuses. Ben appears invisible and Willy tries to talk to 2 people at the same time from different periods of his life.
This incident ends up quarreling and Charly leaves.

2. Ben appears and Willy returns to the present, he wants to leave the house to go for a walk. Willy comes back home in a bad mood. His sons try to convince him to open a sporting goods shop. Biff wants to ask Bill Oliver for capital. Willy is enthusiastic.

3. Biff takes Willy back to the present when he comes, after the restaurant scene, outside into the back yard where Willy is planting seeds and talking to Ben. Biff explain that he will leave, they argue and Willy finds out that Biff loves him. After that Willy makes the final profit.

With reference to the incidents you can say that after returning to the present Willy gets angry and a character leaves the scene. At the end Willy leaves his life by commiting suicide.

greetings
steibi
Hilfe
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 03. Nov 2006 21:46    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Prost Prost
I´m working on the pc, but you´re not available. What a pity.
Then until tomorrow.
Schläfer
steibi
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BeitragVerfasst am: 04. Nov 2006 13:09    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Yesterday, I had something else to do. But here I am again...

Zu den Metaphors: Ach so, du meinst die "Hauptmetaphern", wie ich sie mal bezeichnen will Augenzwinkern. Ich weiß aber nicht. Wenn es wirklich um die FORM geht (so wie ich das verstehe), dann sind die in Frage 9 nicht SO angebracht.
Eigentlich sind diese Metaphern ja grundlegende Gesellschaftskritik. Mit Willy's state of mind haben sie ja eher weniger zu tun (naja: Die beschriebenen Zustände sind der Grund dafür - vielleicht kannst du sie in diesem Zusammenhang äußern).
Die Repetitions wie "kid" passen da schon eher: Sie zeigen an, wie weit Willy schon in der Vergangenheit lebt, bzw. wie oft er dort lebt - auch wenn gerade kein Flashback auf der Bühne zu sehen ist.

Höchstens der Ausrdruck "the woods are burning", der könnte im Zusammenhang mit Frage 1 interessant sein, denn er drückt ja aus, wie sich Willy fühlt, bzw. dass er endlich registriert hat, dass es wirklich schlecht läuft.

zu 1: "revising incidents" heißt ja soviel wie "Vorfälle ändern".
Wahrscheinlich ist damit eher so etwas gemeint wie du einmal angedeutet hast: The accident at the beginning of the play. Willy says that he was sleeping behind the steering wheel, while in reality, he probably thought of killing himself.
However, not only THOSE incidents are meant, but also others, for example in the scene, when Charly tells Willy that he should watch his sons stealing from the building sites nearby. Willy does not see that his sons are THIEVES, but he turns them into FEARLESS CHARAKTERS. This is not a real "incident", but on the whole that is what is meant, I think.
So have a look at everything that happens, which is bad for Willy, or which tells Willy that he has done a fault. I think in every one of these scenes, you'll find Willy interpreting the scene in a very different way.

Und nun: Zu Frage 3 (bei mir zwei Zeilen höher als bei dir).

Yeah, I think you got the point. Biff thinks he has no perspective, the feelings for his father (disgust and love at the same time) are mixed. He feels disoriented, without perspective, because he sees his father struggeling with his dreams, which he, Biff, has also learned to follow (so he doesn't know, whether it would be right to follow these ideas of life).

Puhh. Leaves question one to you (I think we've got the others, haven't we?)

Gruß
MI
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 04. Nov 2006 15:07    Titel: death of a salesman question 1 Antworten mit Zitat

Tanzen

thanks, you helped me so much and we´ve got all.

Bei den Metaphern hast du Recht, das hat doch nichts mit der Form zu tun. Ich werde nicht darauf eingehen, auch nicht auf die "repetitions", die gehören, denke ich eher zur "language". Thumbs up!

Bei der Frage 1 fehlt mir ein bißchen das Gefühl zu erkennen, welcher Vorfall von Willy geändert wird oder nicht so gesehen wird, wie es wirklich ist.
Nachdem du das mit Willys Söhnen geschrieben hast, habe ich es auch erkannt, jedoch erst danach.

Kannst du mir bitte noch Hinweise auf Textstellen geben?

Danke im voraus

steibi
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BeitragVerfasst am: 05. Nov 2006 13:24    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

zu Stilmitteln: Okay, so kannst du's denke ich machen (so hätte ich's gemacht).

Aber mit den Textstellen, da bin ich ein wenig überfragt. Ist leider schon ein halbes Jahr her, also weiß ich auch nicht mehr alles (auch wenn einige Dinge in meinem Gedächtnis ja wieder aufgefrischt wurden).

Aber vielleicht kann man hier hinzufügen, dass Willy sich umbringt. Er erklärt sich das damit, dass er ja für seine Familie sorgen muss, und die Lebensversicherung würde Biff und Happy ihr "business" erlauben (er sieht mal wieder nicht, dass die beiden das überhaupt nicht auf die Beine kriegen würden). In Wirklichkeit ist Willy aber einfach nur lebensmüde, weil alle seine Träume in Luft aufgelöst worden sind...

Nochmal zu 3: Vielleicht passt hier auch der Satz "You blew me so full of hot air" aus der letzten Szene: --> Biff feels mixed up, because he was told he were something better than all the others, but then he had to realize that this is not true.

Gruß
MI
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 05. Nov 2006 13:56    Titel: death of a salesman question 1 Antworten mit Zitat

Hallo, Willkommen

ich weiß, dass heute Sonntag ist, aber ich habe Frage 1 ausgearbeitet. Könntest du noch einmal drüberschauen? Das wäre super nett, denn Morgen muss ich die Klausur super hinbekommen.

Zu 1
Discuss Willy´s skill at revising incidents. List actual incidents and what he turns them into.

1. Willy´s son Biff steals a football from school , but Willy doesn´t punish Biff. Furthermore Willy encourages Biff to steal from a nearby construction site. Anyone so confident, so natural a leader of men has, according to Willy, the right to make his own rules.

Willy turns this criminal incident in a harmless incident and turns his son into a fearless character.


2 Willy borrows money from his heighbour Charley because the company Willy has worked for all his life has stopped his dalary and is paying him only commissions on sales, like a beginner. Linda his wife does the best she can with their meager income to pay their endless bills.

On the other side Willy refuses Charley´s offer to work for him. He would rather die than work for a man he sees as an inferior person.

In this case he turns the financial disaster into a financial situation that is looking very rosy, due to his false pride and wrong dream of life.

3. Willy has financial and personal problems. He can´t fulfill anymore his job on the road as a salesman. He is too old and unsuccessful. The people don´t respect him, they laugh at him. Despite this disaster he lies and says: " I can park my car in any street in New England, and the cops protect it like their own."
He isn´t realizing that he isn´t well-liked and nobody knows him.

Willy turns his not well liked, by lying, into well liked.

Danke im voraus für deine Mühe

Gruß
Steibi
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BeitragVerfasst am: 05. Nov 2006 14:19    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

The second fits not perfectly - where does Willy change anythin? It's not wrong, I guess, but the other two points are better.

Sorry, however, I cannot say more (I don't know any more, either)...

Gruß
MI

PS: Ich wünsch dir natürlich viel Glück und falls irgendwas, was wir hier gesagt haben dran kommt, dann hoffe ich mal, dass wir auch alles wichtige genannt haben - und wenn du das Ergebnis hast, gib doch mal Bescheid! Würde mich interessieren Augenzwinkern .
steibi



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BeitragVerfasst am: 05. Nov 2006 15:49    Titel: Death of a salesman - questions Antworten mit Zitat

Tanzen
Danke nochmals für deine Mühe, die Klausur mit Note gebe ich durch sobald ich sie habe. Ich denke für andere Schüler ist so eine Klausur auf jeden Fall eine Hilfe.

Ich habe gesehen, dass du auch Mathe machst, da werde ich mich nach den Klausuren über das Mathe Board melden, da ich Mathe und Physik Leistung habe. Vor dem Abi möchte ich noch mehr tun.

Bís bald
Steibi smile
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BeitragVerfasst am: 05. Nov 2006 20:02    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Joah. Ich mach so hie und da was, hab von allem so ein bisschen Ahnung (wobei gerade in Mathe und Physik gibt es viele, die viel besser sind als ich! Du wirst auf jeden Fall irgendwen finden, der dir hilft).

Ich bin dann mal gespannt, wie du denn jetzt die Klausur hinbekommst, bzw. welches Ergebnis du hast.

Bis denn!
MI
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